Line 6 M13 users, let’s
discuss the 4CM and the
internal bypass
www.premierguitar.com
frankencat: So continuing on with my
extended test drive of the Line 6 M13, I am
having a blast with it but there are some
limitations I am trying to deal with in trying to
integrate it with my stage setup.
The biggest one so far has been the sound of
the internal bypass vs how the pedal operates
in True Bypass mode when using it with the
4CM method running some fx (delay, verb) in
the loop and others in the front. So what do
you guys think?
Personally I am all setup with buffers and I really
would rather run the M13 in True Bypass mode
and not have the Line 6 buffer in my signal path.
The only problem is the way the pedal works is
that the signal does not pass to the amp’s input
when all pedals are off. This is a bummer for
me and almost a deal breaker since I don’t care
for the sound of the internal buffer. I wish they
would change it so that the pedal passes signal
to the amp input when all bypassed in TB mode.
If I knew of a way to modify the unit to disable
the internal bypass I would probably look into it
but I have not yet seen a schematic for the unit.
So anybody out there feel the same? Do you like
the internal buffer? Let me know what you think.
JoeB63: I just got an M13, and after A/B’ing
it back and forth several times, I swear I can hear
a difference between using the M13 in buffered
bypass mode vs. going straight into my amp
(allowing for the cable length differences) ---
though I won’t claim that I’m 100% sure that I’m
not imagining the difference that I think I hear.
However, this is one of those things that’s
certainly inaudible in a band situation, or at
least completely tolerable in a band situation.
Now of course, if you’re Eric Johnson and your
entire audience is made up of guitar players
who are there to hear your awesome tone, than
it might be a problem. But if you’re not, I think
the utility of the M13 is worth that trade-off if
you’re buying it as a gigging tool.
boltino: I’m using the 4 cable method with
DSP bypass. I haven’t done any extensive
A/B comparisons of True vs. DSP bypass but
running it this way doesn’t bother me.
I’ve always run a buffer (Axess BS- 2) on my
other board; I’d think with the M13 4 cable
method you’d want some sort of buffer on
with all that cable length. I’m using the M13
as my entire board so using the DSP buffer in
my case works very well and keeps me from
having to hook up extra stuff.
I originally did set it up for true bypass; it took
me a bit to figure out the issue I was having
with the unit bypassed (since it runs your
guitar into your amp’s effects return when true
bypass kicks in). I switched to DSP bypass at
that point; the flexibility of the 4 cable method
outweighed any compromises I saw from using
DSP bypass. Obviously YMMV though.
rcl: 4CM here as well, no issues with it. As
others said, when the drummer and bass
player kick it-it aint gonna matter much. I run
a wah into the M13 and that is it. FX1 is drives
etc and pre loop. 2 delays, I think 5 mods, 2
filters. A little more than I need, so I will check
out the M9 when it hits. I liked the M13 at
home as a practice piece with the looper.
But even with it’s girth, I much prefer the
simplicity and lack of cables/power cords
running amok. It still sits on a pedaltrain
board, but takes most of it up.
frankencat: Ok, well like I said, I prefer to not
use the buffer but it is not an option because of
the way it works. In my opinion this is an issue
that should be addressed by Line 6. If you don’t
know what I am talking about, hook up your M13
using the 4CM and set it to True Bypass. When
you turn off all of the effects your guitar signal is
routed to the effects loop return on the amp. This
is because the signal is routed from the Input to
the Output on the M13 in TB mode but it would
be better if it was routed to the FX Send on the
M13 which is what you connect to the amps input
when using the 4CM. At least if it were an option
it would be usable. I just don’t see a scenario
where having the guitar signal suddenly routed to
the effects loop return on the amp is useful and
quite frankly it seems like something that would/
should have been caught and addressed in the
QA phase of the product.
richrenken: Just so you know, the only
way we could have had the FX loop work in
True Bypass would be to add two more relays.
They are not cheap. With M13 we had to goal
to keep it at $499. So we couldn’t afford the
other 2 relays (M13 has two now). So because
of this, it was a hard requirement that the DSP
bypass be world class. It beats many other units
that are much more expensive. We made it as
robust as possible. It is not going to be perfect
for everyone. Maybe on the M?? bigger one I
would like to see one day we will make it a hard
requirement to have more relays. We will see.
